yasyāsti bhaktir bhagavaty akiñcanā
sarvair guṇais tatra samāsate surāḥ
harāv abhaktasya kuto mahad-guṇā
manorathenāsati dhāvato bahiḥ
April 19 2021 — "Too busy to beg for forgiveness."
On Monday, April 19, 2021, 11:09:12 AM EDT, Krishna Kirtan <firstname.lastname@example.org> wrote:
Haribol Madhava das (Marc-James Redwine),
I thought this was over and that you were moving on after our email exchange from last week. I become deeply disturbed to learn that you called our Swamiji yesterday in Hanover and dared accuse him of putting a curse on you. Have you completely gone out of your mind now? What a ridiculous thing!..
So it becomes clear to the public what has happened, we have posted Swamiji’s own description of your offensive behavior of yesterday (April 18 2021) as well as our communication exchange from the days prior.
[ https://www.krsna.org/merciful/ ]
If you claim to be a devotee you should know that devotees do not know nor deal in black magic, and they are also unaffected by it. All well situated devotees are also protected from such things, so why would you suffer from a curse if you claim to be a Vaishnava? Vaishnavas don’t curse anyone either. If you think yourself to be so elevated, then why are you thinking in these terms? Only your own offenses bring you misery, including hoax concoctions such as this.
You should also know that all devotees of Bhagavat Dharma Samaj who have sincerely surrendered to our bonafide Guru His Divine Grace Sri Krsna Balaram Swami, they are in fact protected by the Lord and by Swamiji’s purity in every way. They do not have serious diseases and are free from any kind of serious problems, including black magic.
If you happened to have been sent to Bhagavat Dharma Samaj by whatever agency and/or ISKCON in order to disturb us, that will ultimately have no effect; it never does. Others have tried before and failed miserably. The purity and spiritual power of our Spiritual Master His Divine Grace Mahamandaleshwar Mahant Sri Krsna Balaram Swami cannot be comprehended by common people. A pure devotee of the Lord does not curse anyone, does not wish anyone harm, and even those who are seen as his enemy he does not consider them as enemy. A pure devotee of the Lord sees someone like you as an unfortunate conditioned soul who should be connecting with God instead of creating problems for others.
Our mission at Bhagavat Dharma Samaj is to give Krsna to everyone who is sincerely seeking. It is said that in Vedic culture that even if a snake comes to someone’s house, the snake does not go hungry. So even if the nature of someone is to be snake like, we still feed them Krsna consciousness if they come to us. That type of thinking perhaps you will never understand because you seem engrossed in your own mundane friend/enemy mentality.
Kaliyuga agents in the past have attacked our Guru in many ways going back several decades. And just when we think we’ve seen the worse, then another attempt to attack Swamiji occurs, and it fails again. Our Guru is absolutely protected by God Himself, Lord Krsna. Let that sink in. Don’t let yourself be carried away and ruin your own life by being offensive to a pure devotee, a Vrajavasi. Lord Sri Krsna, God Himself will punish you, and nobody else.
Please do not cause any more disturbance and save yourself from the situation you created with your speculative mind.
Chant Hare Krishna and keep your sanity!
* * *
On Monday, April 19 2021 15:25:29 +0000 Marc-James Redwine <email@example.com> wrote:
BDS, KK, KBS
Post what ever it is you would like about me. I’m sorry that it ended this way…I just hope you are happy.
* * *
On Monday, April 19, 2021, 11:38:18 AM EDT, Krishna Kirtan <firstname.lastname@example.org> wrote:
We have names, not three letter words, if you don’t mind.
His Divine Grace Mahamandaleshwar Sri Krsna Balaram Swami, the Founder-Acharya of Bhagavat Dharma Samaj. And my name is Krishna Kirtan.
And we are absolutely not happy that a soul is lost to Maya and that we can no longer help you atone for your committed offenses against the devotees, neither are you interested in helping yourself. You telephoned our Guru in Hanover yesterday to make such absurd accusations and to disturb him. Are you now denying that? Please stop with your nonsense and take care of your mind.
* * *
On Monday, April 19 2021 15:45:48 +0000 Marc-James Redwine <email@example.com> wrote:
Haribol Krsna Kirtan,
I apologize for all the offenses I committed to Krsna Balarama Swami, to yourself, and any of our other God brothers/sisters.
My accusations were not right, my health is certainly not well and I am sorry for that. I would have called back to tell him that but he ordered me not to call.
I am not stationary in my life right now, I am an instructor at a college and I am constantly on the go otherwise I would have had a talk with him a long time ago.
I will continue to chant in solitude, Krsna will see my sincerity. Again I am sorry.
Good luck to you all
* * *
On Monday, April 19, 2021, 12:05:12 PM EDT, Krishna Kirtan <firstname.lastname@example.org> wrote:
Haribol Marc (Madhava das),
If you wish to apologize for any offense you must approach the person who you offended directly. You will have to approach Swamiji directly.
Concerning myself, I do not see any offense against me, and if there was one it’s forgiven no problem. But I really do not see any offense anywhere to my person. Regarding offenses against Sri Krsna Balaram Swami however, you will have to approach him humbly and sincerely and beg his forgiveness. Only then you will have peace. Your offense was so great that it would require a more than genuine effort on your part. An offense against a Vaishnava can only be truly atoned if it is completely sincere and heartfelt, and must be asked directly to the Vaishnava. The words are not “I apologize…”, the words are “Please forgive me from the bottom of my heart for the offense committed against you.” That is the way to obtain relief from Lord Krsna for an offense committed against His pure devotee.
You may not realize this yet, but you are dealing with the highest spiritual power on the planet at the moment. You may believe this or not, but it would stupid on your part to take chances thinking less of Swamiji. You know nothing!
Don’t think that just a ‘lame’ apology will do it. If I were you I would atone for your offense properly, and then go ahead and move on in life as you wish. Krsna will see your sincerity only when it is real. You will not have peace in the eyes of God until you have atoned for your offenses against His pure devotee, done correctly. Put your ego aside and offer your dandavats obeisances to Swamiji and beg for his forgiveness.
You really have no idea who you are dealing with when it comes to Sri Krsna Balaram Swami, so my golden advice is that you beg him for forgiveness and make it genuinely real. Then move on and try to start your spiritual life again.
Good luck! Jay Sri Radhe!
* * *
On Monday, April 19 2021 16:13:33 +0000 Marc-James Redwine <email@example.com> wrote:
To true Prabhu, and I hope the Lord will one day give me the opportunity to go to Hanover and make peace with my old Guru.
Right now I cannot as I am traveling around and teaching all the time. Thank you for forgiving me at least against you.
I am in the middle of reviewing courseware now and making sure things are correct, I have to get back to work. My humble respects from a distance.
* * *
On Monday, April 19, 2021, 04:34:35: PM +0000, Krishna Kirtan <firstname.lastname@example.org> wrote:
Do the needful as you think is best for your spiritual benefit!
Would just add that whatever you do has to come from a sincere heart. That is what the Lord is looking at, your heart. The Lord will certainly know when it’s superficial and when it’s real. Please also keep in mind that offenses against a pure Vaishnava like our Swamiji are like fire, and that as long it is not contained it may destroy you completely and everything around you. So do it without delay.
Best wishes. Jay Sri Radhe!
April 18 2021 — Amazing offense.
Dear Krishna Kirtan,
Please accept my blessings. I hope you are well.
This Sunday morning (April 18th, 2021), nobody was in the Ashram here. Lochan and Mukunda had left and Jagadish had not yet come. A call came from Marc. As nobody was here, I lifted the phone. He said, “This is Madhava. Why have you cursed me? I almost had a heart attack last night! You put a curse on me! I am suffering! I almost died last night! There are so many people who depend on me! I gave up on my family!”
I said, “Devotees don’t curse anyone. I am a devotee, I do not know how to curse anyone. Whoever misled you, he or she is your enemy. If you are following someone, man or woman, they are your enemy for misleading you away from me.”
He carried on speaking, “You put a curse on me! You cannot curse me! I respect you! I am your Harinam disciple! I have nothing to do with you! I do not want to stay with you! You are un-Vaishnava!”
He told so many times that I had put a curse on him, I asked him, “Are you an American? If you are an American, you don’t believe in curses, you believe in science. The science is, whoever is born, his death is certain. After taking birth, one goes through suffering.” But he carried on saying that I cursed him. He didn’t stop because someone really brainwashed him.
So I asked him, “Are you an African? Only Africans living in Africa believe in voodoo, and curses. Or those from Haiti, Honduras, etc. You are supposed to be American. Americans believe in science. Nobody can curse anyone. This is all a hoax.”
Still he did not stop, and said “Krishna Balaram! Don’t curse me! So many people are depending on me!” Because it happened so many repeated times, I told him “Don’t call here.” He carried on repeating the same thing. Again I told him “Don’t call here.” And he carried on repeating the same thing. I told him, “Whoever has misled you this way, he is your enemy, and remember this till your last breath, and stop calling here.” And I hung up on him.
I usually don’t lift the phone when Lochan is here or Mukunda is here. But there was nobody today. He luckily got me on the phone to hear my sound, but it is amazing to me how people are being brainwashed and how people are brainwashing people to control them by talking against me.
Only stupid fellows believe this and speak against me like this.
There is a saying in Vedic scriptures that one can tolerate the scorching heat upon one’s bare head, but one cannot tolerate the same scorching heat on the soles of the bare feet. Similarly, a devotee, being soft by nature, may forgive and forget the committed offense against him, but Lord Krsna does not forgive. So Marc’s having a heart attack, or a similar painful experience to that (an actual heart-attack means hospitalization) is the result of his committing offense and cheating an innocent devotee by somehow alluring him by artificial devotion to comply with the request of begging initiation. A real devotee doesn’t know any magic, spell, and will never misuse his purity to curse anyone.
Kazi (a Muslim ruler at the time of Lord Chaitanya Mahaprabhu’s manifestation) broke Lord Chaitanya’s devotee’s clay Mrdanga because he did not like them to chant congregationally, the sound of which disturbed him. So the devotees kept quiet. But Lord Chaitanya did not. He came in the form of Nrsimhadeva at the dead of night while Kazi was asleep and broke open his stomach. Kazi felt very much pain. “Why did you disturb my devotees?” the Lord said. Kazi said, “I won’t, I won’t I won’t!” He was so scared and woke up in the morning, and shivering with fear, he decided to surrender to Lord Chaitanya and beg pardon. The story is long and it is a little different than what I have said here, but the essence is the same. But here, this man, Marc, instead of coming to surrender, as Kazi did 500 years ago, he called up and in a chastising sound, he accused me of cursing him. Kazi was a Muslim who loved eating cows. His attitude was diametrically opposed to the attitude and words and thinking of Mr. Marc, and Mr. Marc thinks he is a great devotee, and nobody is better than him, whereas Kazi surrendered and got embraced by Lord Chaitanya. It is always better to reach spiritual life in a positive manner, humbly surrendering, asking for forgiveness to the devotee who was offended. This is the only way for obtaining the embrace of the Supreme Lord.
Any sane person would run from his place to beg pardon from the devotee whom he or she had offended. But when he called, he did not even say “Namaste”, “Haribol”, or “Hare Krishna” – he said “This is Madhava Das speaking.” Even a normal person will say in India, “Radhe Radhe”, “Namaste”, “Hare Krishna”, “Ram Ram”, “Dandavat”, or “Haribol.” In the Western world, a normal person will say, “Good morning, how are you?” Like that. So by his attitude, it makes me think that when one becomes affiliated in ISKCON style, he loses his sanity and normal sense.
Thank you Krishna Kirtan, I wanted to let you know what happened today.
Your ever well-wisher,
Krsna Balaram Swami
April 17 2021 — "Farewell message".
On Saturday, April 17, 2021, 08:52:41 AM EDT, Krishna Kirtan <email@example.com> wrote:
Dear Madhava das (Marc James),
I hope you and all of those near you are doing well.
Please kindly read what I’m about to tell you, I speak sincerely from the heart.
I wasn’t going to write you anything else after our email exchange from two days ago, but it appears that whatever was said had some effect on you. I noticed that after our talk you decided to remove all of the videos from your YouTube channel (in the dozens) and added a new video expressing all your regrets and admitting to great mistakes. That is quite noble of you I must say, and to me the way you spoke seemed quite sincere and heartfelt.
Although you did not exactly state your position regarding your spiritual life from now onwards, I was a bit surprised by the apparent humble tone you took in your ‘Farewell Message’ video.
Farewell Message – The Final Message of my preaching program:
You strike me as a fast learner and articulate. That is a good quality for preaching, however the manner in which you were presenting yourself was not good. Lord Krsna certainly loves those who preach His glories, but for that preaching to be effective it must be done under the blessings of a bonafide Scripturally Authentic Spiritual Master, and the devotee doing it must practice true humility and not be hasty. Because everything you did on YouTube was always entirely on your own and own mental speculations, you only brought problems to yourself and your own spiritual life, and you are now seeing its results.
An effective preacher must have real qualifications. He must honor his Spiritual Master always in every possible way and have blessings from him, and this way of being starts to gives one the knowledge necessary to preach. Even one who cannot speak or is uneducated can become a great and convincing preacher if he has the blessings of a bonafide Scripturally Authentic Guru. So you will first have to find out for yourself who that bonafide Guru is and honor him, otherwise you will only commit offenses. There is a lot of etiquette involved as well. You cannot try to preach Krishna consciousness while breaking all kinds of etiquette and worse, not even knowing what the etiquettes are and speak out of your own mind whatever you think you learned without the blessings of Guru. You only end up committing serious offenses, and the end result from that is simply doom.
Our Spiritual Master His Divine Grace Mahamandaleshwar Mahant Sri Krsna Balaram Swamiji wrote to you the following letter on August 1st 2020, but you still continued to ignore his instructions and kept on with your socalled preaching, which has now only brought you regret.
LETTER: History and loyalty to Guru, August 1 2020
The subject of loyalty to a bonafide Guru and our relationship with the Parampara is something that many devotees, even so called advanced devotees who have practiced Krishna consciousness for decades, still have a problem understanding and realizing. I’m not an advanced devotee by any means, just want to do the right thing, that is my safe harbor. Western devotees are often contaminated with the Western mindset of thinking they know so much and that now they can save others. How can a drowning dog save another drowning dog? It’s not possible. That mentality that you can save actually others yourself is wrong. The correct attitude of a well situated devotee is the mindset of: “How can I serve my Guru and please him? How can I speak properly in a manner that will please my Guru? Oh my dear Guru, please bless me and allow me to speak the right words so they will be effective when they come out of my mouth.” A prayer every time. Notice that ‘my Guru’ is singular, not plural. One who has found a bonafide Guru and surrendered to him, the disciple only belongs to him and no one else.
Only someone who is truly sincere and fortunate can be blessed to understand this fully, understanding what it means to be loyal to a bonafide Guru and never leave him. You can’t think that you can go everywhere, get knowledge from any Guru, and then preach for your own glory. You did not respect any etiquette, even after being warned of it, and only preached based on your own speculation and so called learning. That’s not how this works.
The parampara exists for a reason. It is meant for those fortunate souls in the current time and place to take shelter of Scripturally Authorized Spiritual Master, who is physically present to instruct you, who you can surrender to, and who has the power to take you back to Godhead. So please go ahead and first search for that person, and when you find him, you will then only belong to him and no one else.
Usually on Sundays the devotees of Bhagavat Dharma Samaj meet on Zoom with other devotees to discuss Krishna Katha (Satsanga). Unfortunately you were never interested in joining us or associating with Swamiji’s disciples. Here is a small 12 minutes from our last meeting, and the topic of loyalty to Guru was talked about a little. Watch this and you will also get to see my face on the video. Since we never met in person before I’m sharing.
SATSANGA Questions and Answers — Regarding connection with the parampara.
Those interested in authentic spiritual life must be cautious. When participating in spiritual life you injure yourself if you are not careful. Specially for the ones who are just starting, one must be extremely careful not to commit any type offense, be it direct offenses, indirect offenses, or even offenses in the mind. Although a real devotee does not become angry when someone offends him, Lord Krsna does not tolerate offenses to His dear devotee.
You may not have realized who His Divine Grace Sri Krsna Balaram Swamiji is, what he represents, and so much more about him. Having the ability to understand who is that is largely dependent on your good fortune and good Karma from previous lives. Having said that, regardless who you think our Swamiji is or is not, you are not in a position to commit any type of offense against him in any manner. Even those who are regular Brahmanas, they must be respected by all, perhaps from a distance, yet never offend them in any way.
In the case of our Swamiji, if you at least try to sincerely learn more about him, his position, history, and much more, you may come to understand how his very life history and mission speak for itself. You don’t have to understand the entire of topic of Who Can Become Guru and Who Cannot right away, just at least you can start by having some respect by who is and try to associate with his disciples who you can learn from. That would be a good start. So even if you don’t accept him as your Guru, that is also fine, everyone gets the Guru they deserve. But to offend someone like that is not tolerated by Lord Krsna and you will destroy all your merits regardless of where you go practice spiritual life.
Whatever you are thinking or deciding to do, I suggest the following for your own benefit in Krishna consciousness, in this life or in any life, and even for your material wellbeing in this life as well. Don’t bring misery to your life, and try to repair the great offense you committed against our Swamiji. You will have everything to gain by doing that.
Try to remember what happened to Durvasa Muni when he offended Maharaj Ambarish. You can read the story in the 9th Canto of Srimad Bhagavatam. The Lord’s own Sudarsana Chakra was coming after Durvasa Muni, who by the power of his austerities was able to run away flying across the entire universe to scape certain death, and nobody could help him anywhere he went. He even managed to reach Lord Narayan but even Lord Nayaran could not help Durvasa Muni because of his offense to Maharaj Ambarish. An offense to a Vaishnava, a pure devotee of the Lord, can only be excused by the devotee himself, in this case only Maharaj Ambarish could forgive Durvasa Muni. Although a pure devotee is very tolerant is does not hold anger towards the offender, the Lord will punish such offender. Durvasa Muni, a great powerful sage, rushed flying back to where Maharaj Ambarish was, prostrated at his lotus feet and begged him for forgiveness. Ambarish Maharaj was a complete pure devotee of the Lord, a fact which seemed unknown to Durvasi Muni at the time, but see how much trouble came to Durvasa Muni.
Dear Madhava das, I say this out of compassion for your situation. This would be a perfect time for you to halt speaking about what a devotee is or what devotional life is all about to others, and simply BE yourself that trinad-api-sunicena (who can chant the Holy Name in a humble state of mind) and taror api sahisnuna (thinking himself lower than a blade of grass in the street), as instructed by Lord Caitanya. Prove to yourself you are capable of that first and here is your chance.
Even if you don’t accept Swamiji as your Guru, it is only to your benefit in every possible way that you go beg him for his forgiveness. If I were you I would do this.
Make a garland of clean scented flowers white chanting Hare Krishna and rush to Hanover faster than the speed limit, and prostrate Dandavat obeisances to Sri Krsna Balaram Swami the moment you see him, and with folder hands you can say:
“My dear Vrajavasi, I don’t know who you are, but I committed a great offense against you. Please forgive me.” Stay silent after that and only speak if he asks you to speak, and keep it short. Place the flower garland on him when you get a chance.
After doing this and going back home you can then pray to the Supreme Lord and decide whatever you want to do with your spiritual life or material life onwards, knowing well that you did the right thing, and that this advice I have given you here is truly the best thing for you, now and forever. Once you’ve done this you can then decide who you want to follow, what you want to do, and how to proceed with your life.
Jay Sri Radhe.
* * *
On Thursday, April 17, 2021, 01:27:35 PM +0000 Marc-James Redwine <firstname.lastname@example.org> wrote:
I have no intention of ever going back to Bhagavat Dharma Samaj or to KBS.
Quit emailing me and leave me to my solitary bhajan. May Sriman Mahaprabhu have mercy on you.
* * *
On Saturday, April 17, 2021, 08:52:41 AM EDT, Krishna Kirtan <email@example.com> wrote:
Be well on your journey.
Jay Sri Radhe!
April 15 2021 — Defeated speculations.
On Saturday, April 15, 2021 14:51:24 +0000 Marc-James Redwine <firstname.lastname@example.org> wrote:
Remove me from this mailing list immediately.
* * *
On Thursday, April 15, 2021, 11:23:26 AM EDT, Krishna Kirtan <email@example.com> wrote:
Dear Madhava das (Marc James),
All glories to His Divine Grace Mahamandaleshwar Mahant Sri Krsna Balaram Swamiji!
We have heard that you are no longer with Bhagavat Dharma Samaj for sometime now and is not interested in our Guru His Divine Grace Sri Krsna Balaram Swami, who gave you initiation and the name Madhava das. Can you please explain why you have still maintained a YouTube channel preaching and presenting yourself under the name Madhava das that was given to you by our Guru?
If I may ask, what motivated you to distance yourself and reject Swamiji, who so kindly took care of you? Perhaps we can discuss. I understand you present yourself as knowledgeable and likes Krishna consciousness very much. Although new to everything you seem to have a lot of interest in reading and learning, and even preaching as we have seen on your YouTube channel. Please let me know. Let us discuss and I would be happy to answer any question if you have.
Thank you. Jay Sri Radhe!
* * *
On Thursday, April 15, 2021 17:21:43 +0000 Marc-James Redwine <firstname.lastname@example.org> wrote:
All glories to Sri Guru and Sri Gauranga Mahaprabhu!
The name Madhava Das was CONFIRMED, to me by Sri Krsna Balarama Swami, whom I accepted Hari-Nama initiation from in Sri Vrindavana Dham on Feb. 28 2020. I still hold high admiration for Maharaj and he will always have a place in my heart, but by the order of Sri Jiva Goswami and by his deviation of the correct conclusion of the Rupanuga Varga, I left Bhagavat Dharma Samaj. I keep my name and keep my preaching activity on my youtube channel for the benefit of all souls, and as I stated my name was CONFIRMED to me by Krsna Balaram Swami. Chaitya Guru already revealed this name to me before my initiation took place. Chaitya Guru also manifested through Krsna Balaram Swami Maharaj, whom gave me Hari-Nama Initiation, which I am eternally grateful for. It was my destiny, that Maharaj give me initiation. I only met him 7 months before he gave me initiation into the chanting of the holy name. Do you think such a erudite scholar, and highly venerated personality would have initiated me in 7 months of meeting me, if Lord Hari had not been dictating him to do so? In the same sense, if a child is named by the parents and runs away from home because his parents being criminals, does that child immediately get to change his name? That is not the case. Guru-Shisya relationship is one of eternal affairs, not limited or temporal. You should also know I chant on the same beads he gave me in Vrindavan, meditating on him and thanking him for this position. It is known in Gaudiya Vaishnava circles that if one takes Hari Nama initiation and chants sincerely after that, the holy names will take him to a real Sadhguru to take Krsna Mantra Diksa.
Krsna Balarama Swami Maharaj knows exactly why I walked away from him and Bhagavat Dharma Samaj, we talked to him about it while he was in Vrindavan and we still have the voice recordings from that conversation to prove it. It all boils down to the point of Namaparadha, on the account of offending devotees and vaishnavas. If ones goal is to attain Prema , one must be careful to avoid offense of the holy name. If a disciple sees his Guru making these types of offenses against devotees he has the right to walk away and worship from a distance and to take shelter elsewhere, just like a child being abused by his parents have the right to take shelter of the state. The disciple in this case is not getting aparadha for this, and he is actually conducting himself correctly. A real disciple must be intelligent enough to save himself. Our acharyas state the same thing!
Sri Jiva Goswami in Bhakti Sandarbha:
Translation of Anuccheda 238
A person who, in the beginning, fails to accept a guru of this caliber and whose guru, out of envy, does not permit him to honor and serve highly realized devotees of Bhagavān, has disregarded śāstra from the very outset [by accepting an unqualified guru], and hence śāstra doesn’t even consider his case. Calamity certainly befalls such a person on both accounts [because if he follows the order of his guru, he fails to honor the great devotees, and if he honors the devotees, he disobeys his guru]. With this in mind, the Nārada-Pāñcarātra states:
yo vakti nyāya-rahitam anyāyena śṛṇoti yaḥ
tāv ubhau narakaṁ ghoraṁ vrajataḥ kālam akṣayam
“Both the person whose instructions are not in resonance with scripture and the one who hears such illegitimate teachings proceed to a dreadful hell for an unlimited period of time.”
Therefore, such a guru should be respected only from a distance. And if he is inimical toward Vaiṣṇavas, he should certainly be given up, as stated:
guror apy avaliptasya kāryākāryamajānataḥ
utpatha-pratipannasya parityāgo vidhīyate
“It is ordained that a guru who is self-conceited, who does not know what is to be done and what is to be avoided, and who has stumbled down the wrong path is to be given up.” (MB, Udyoga Parva 179.25)
Furthermore, such a guru cannot be considered a Vaiṣṇava, because he lacks the character of a Vaiṣṇava, and thus the following admonition is given with such a guru in mind:
avaiṣṇavopadiṣṭena mantreṇa nirayaṁ vrajet
punaś ca vidhinā samyag grāhayed vaiṣṇavād guroḥ
“One goes to hell by receiving a mantra from a guru who is not a Vaiṣṇava. Such a person should again accept a mantra from a Vaiṣṇava guru, in conformity with the prescribed principles.”
Then again, Krsna Balarama Swami also has deviated from the principles set out by his own Guru, Parama Guru and Paratpar Guru and thus broke the chain of disciplic succession and decided to act independently. In his famous book ‘GURU NIRNAYA DIPIKA’ Maharaj makes the theoretical claim that only a Brahmin born devotee can become a Diksa Guru, and goes a great length to prove a conception that goes against Sri Chaitanya Mahaprabhu, who is the Lord himself. This is clearly against AC Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada, Sri Bhaktisiddhanta Saraswati Thakura, and Bhaktivinoda Thakura Mahasya. BV Narayana Goswami Maharaj warned him about this and KBS threw his warning out.
Here is a conversation between a disciple and BV Narayana Goswami Maharaj (BVNM) about this specific incident:
Devotee: Maharaja, I read one book of Krsna Balarama Swami, where he said that a guru should be born in a brahmin family.
BVNM: This is a lie. He is against Bhakti. He sent that book to me, but I refused to accept it. I had it sent back to him and I told him, ” You are acting against devotees. You are deviating from the line of Bhakti. You have betrayed your Guru and Vaishnavas.” My reply to him was very clear.
Devotee: I read a little of that book and then realized it was totally wrong.
BVNM: His conceptions are against our sampradaya.
In the beginning we were duplicitous and were only worried about getting initiated because we wanted to become devotees externally. But that level of sincerity was lacking and therefore the result was not correct on our part, which we beg the Supreme Lord every day to forgive us and lead us to a bonafide sadhguru from which we can take Mantra Diksa from. The moral of this story is the cheaters want to be cheated!
I hope its all clear. I do not want to have any thing to do with BDS, I have left. Let me do my Bhajan in peace.
What else can I say?
* * *
On Thursday, April 15, 2021, 02:16:52 PM EDT, Krishna Kirtan <email@example.com> wrote:
Dear Madhava das (Marc James),
I have read your letter and noted the contents.
Before I reply to your letter in more detail, I must say that you appear completely delusional to think or act in a way that you now know more than His Divine Grace Sri Krsna Balaram Swami or pretty much any devotee I ever met in my life, and I happened myself to be born and raised in this Vaishnava culture. Due to your past bad karma you had to be born in this life in a family of meat eaters and were doing so much nonsense just a couple years ago to be presenting yourself with so much prideful attitude.
If you wish to become a real devotee in this life you will have to be humble or else you will be burning in offenses. Lord Krsna does not tolerate offenders and Yamaraj would also have no mercy on you. From the beginning I noticed you always tried to act and present yourself as a Guru of your own, and any real devotee does not speak like the way you do here and have done in your unauthorized videos.
If you have such proof of whatever conversation you had with Swamiji that so-called proves whatever you are saying, please share it, I would like to hear it. Since you say you have such ‘proof’, please show it to me then. Not only that, but your letter is long and with lots of fluttering and speculation, and mixes many things all into one rant. So if you could please state and pin point out exactly each single topic of contention in a scholarly manner, I would be happy to reply.
For starters I would like to say this. You claim that you left Bhagavat Dharma Samaj because of the ‘order’ of Srila Jiva Goswami, while not believing that a Diksha Guru must be born in a brahmana family as ONE OF THE QUALIFICATIONS required to be a bonafide Diksha Guru. So, as follows is what our beloved Srila Jiva Goswami, Srila Vishwanath Chakravarti Thakur, and Srila Rupa Goswami have to say on the subject:
Śrīla Jīva Goswami, the back-bone of Gauḍīya Vaiṣṇavism states in his commentary on Bhakti-rasāmṛta-sindhu, Durgama-Saṅgamanī:
brāhmaṇa kumārāṇāṁ śaukre janmani durjātitva abhāve’pi savana ayogyatvāya puṇya viśeṣa-maya sāvitra janma sāpekṣa tvāt, tataś ca savana ayogyatv apratikūla durjāty ārambhakaṁ prārabdham api gatam eva, kintu śiṣṭācāra abhāvat sāvitraṁ janma nāsti iti brāhmaṇa kumārāṇāṁ savana yogyatv abhāvacchedaka puṇya viśeṣamaya sāvitra janma apekṣāvad asya janmāntara apekṣā vartata iti bhāvaḥ. ataḥ pramāṇa vākye’pi ‘savanāya kalpate’ sambhāvito bhavati, na tu tadaiva adhikārisyāt iti abhipretam. (Durgama-Saṅgamanī, 1.16)
TRANSLATION: “Even though born in a Brāhmaṇa dynasty and are not of low birth, still they remain unqualified to perform any purificatory ceremonies like initiation or fire sacrifices. They have to wait until their purificatory thread ceremony of Brāhmaṇa initiation to perform such services. Similarly, those born in untouchable low class families have their impurities removed by initiation into Bhakti-yoga. However, due to spiritual regulation, just as a Brāhmaṇa’s son has to wait for his thread ceremony (Brāhmaṇa’s initiation), the low-born devotee, although initiated, has to take another birth to perform such purificatory functions. Regardless of the scriptural statement, ‘A low-born becomes purified by embracing spiritual life’, means he is considered pure, but not entitled to perform purificatory ceremonies like initiation or deity installation.”
Śrīla Visvanātha Chakravartī Ṭhākura also writes in his Sārārtha-Pradarśinī:
yogyatvam atra yāga adhikāritva svarūpam eva, na ca tādṛśa śvapacasya yāga-adhikāratve sa kathaṁ yogaṁ na karoti iti vācyam. (Sārārtha Pradarśinī, 1.1.22)
TRANSLATION: “A low-born out-caste, when initiated, becomes like a purified person, but this does not mean he is able to perform purificatory ceremonies such as initiation or deity installation etc.”
Under the direct guidance of Lord Śrī Chaitanya Mahāprabhu, Śrīla Rūpa Goswāmī wrote in his Bhakti-Rasāmṛta-Sindhu (Nectar of Devotion):
durjātir eva savanāyogyatve kāraṇaṁ matam durjāty ārambhakaṁ pāpaṁ yat syāt prārabdham eva tat (Bhakti-Rasāmṛta-Sindhu 1.1.22).
TRANSLATION: “The only reason to remain unauthorized to initiate, install deities, or perform any sacrifices is a devotee’s taking a low birth. This low birth is the symptom of his past acquired sinful deeds.”
Please kindly send me each point of contentions you have in numbered order (1, 2, 3, and so on), so it can be addressed accordingly. By speaking the way you have done in your letter I think you should be at least prepared to present your case and arguments clearly and succinctly, so we can reply accordingly, one by one. Please state each of your points directly and succinctly, and send them to me.
Perhaps this would be a good opportunity for either you or me to learn something from the exchange. If you cannot do this you would be committing a great offense, because you would be knowingly offending His Divine Grace Mahamandaleshwar Mahant Sri Krsna Balaram Swami without even allowing the opportunity to understand his position precisely and accurately, even after having taken initiation from him, and now only wanting to accuse and pose that you already know everything there to is to know. That type of offense would only bring complete doom to your spiritual life, or whatever by now would be left of it.
Please tell us exactly what your doubts or assertions are. You are apparently ready to preach so much on your own, so this is your chance to show the world how much you actually know, or is prepared to know. Please present your case.
Thank you. Jay Sri Radhe.
* * *
On Thursday, April 15, 2021 19:11:44 +0000 Marc-James Redwine <firstname.lastname@example.org> wrote:
All that you have stated and supposed evidence is misconstrued. If any one is delusional here it would not be me. Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati Thakur was very specific about this. You personally attack my background and thus have become an offender. I do not need to present a case, BG Narasingha Maharaja has already done so and Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati Thakura himself has done it in his brāhmaṇa o vaishnava tāratamya-viṣayaka siddhānta.
I have written a very clear email with evidence to my claims. KBS in his voice message told me himself that he gave me the green light to move on and that is exactly what I did.
Your threat that my spiritual life will be endangered is ridiculous. So many Gaudiya Vaishnavas from BR Sridhar Dev Goswami’s disciples, from BV Narayana Goswami Maharaja, and many more circles have all told me I am making the right choice. This conduct in BDS is not correct and it is known in the entire Gaudiya Vaishnava community around the globe, from America to Vrindavan all know about it. Everyone is wrong but BDS? All Gurus and teachers and leaders are wrong except KBS? I will let you all believe that.
Let it be known I left due to Vaishnava Ninda. No one can deny that this is happening in the ranks of BDS. I will always love KBS, I will always chant my rounds, follow 4 regulative principles and fold my hands from a distance. One day Krsna will deliver me to a bonafide Guru and I will have forgotten about all of this madness.
What else can I say?
* * *
On Thu, Apr 15, 2021 at 16:09, Krishna Kirtan <email@example.com> wrote:
Dear Madhava das (Marc James),
How is it what I presented that was written by Srila Jiva Goswami misconstrued? Are you a Sanskrit scholar or have a complete Vedic education? Based on what can you say it is misconstrued? Please make a real point, don’t just make a statement because you think you are right and that should be the end of it. That is scholarly dishonest.
I have not attacked your background, simply stated the fact, a fact backed up by the Vedic scriptures. It is a fact that due to bad karma we are all born in different situations, family, propensities, and so on. That is a fact. One who has such a bad background as yours carries an enormous amount of bad Karma that can you could not pay even in millions of lifetimes without the help of a Scripturally Authorized Vaishnava Diksha Guru. Only due to the mercy of a bonafide Guru that Karma could be alleviated.
I had tried to speak with you when you were just coming to Bhagavat Dharma Samaj, so many months ago, and even before you got initiated, but you never replied to my messages and invitation to speak. I wanted to know where you were coming from with all your videos on YouTube. But you never gave me the opportunity to even speak with you. You never seemed interested in associating with any of Bhagavat Dharma Samaj devotees either, but only in your own glory on YouTube and nothing else. I honestly thought all you cared for was to be a Guru yourself, a protagonist of religion, agent of Kaliyuga. I hope I’m wrong, but it always looked that way.
The person BG Narasingha Maharaj that you speak about is himself an offender to his own bonafide Guru Srila Prabhupada. Have you read Nanka Kumar Prabhu’s reply to Narasingha’s disciple paper on this subject? You can read it here:
In the very beginning Nanda Kumar Prabhu writes the following facts about BG Narasingha Maharaj.
“In Vedic civilization when one finds a scripturally authentic Guru and takes initiation from him, switching or relinquishing that Guru is called an unforgiveable offense. Prior to becoming B.G. Narasingha Maharaja, B.G. Narasingha Maharaja was a disciple of Srila Prabhupada and his name was Jagad Guru Swami. Although he took three initiations from Srila Prabhupada, he still relinquished him and took reinitiation from Srila Sridhar Maharaja of the Chaitanya Saraswat Math, who gave him this name B.G. Narasingha Maharaja. As per Vedic standard, a chaste disciple who does not relinquish the Guru is called sincere. But the situation of those who change their Guru is like that of an unchaste lady seeking shelter of another man, and this is an offense. The Sarasvata Parampara is a very recent creation. The arguments presented by the disciple of B.G. Narasingha Maharaja are in the Bengali language and are mistranslated into English. One should carefully note that only those books written in Sanskrit by Srila Vyasadeva are called scriptures and thus they are the authorities.”
That paper from BG Narasingha’s disciple against Guru Nirnaya Dipika is pathetic. He could not even get the difference between Vasistha Muni, who was Lord Rama’s Guru and a completely DIFFERENT other Vasistha who born from Urvasi, thinking himself both to be the same Vasistha. Right there it starts to show BG Narasingha’s ignorance and lack of knowledge, even before getting into any other serious subject. Have you read Nanda Kumar’s reply? Madhava, only pretty English words from someone like BG Narasingha do not suffice, you have to actually know what you are talking about, and BG Narasingha does not know even the basics of accepting a Guru for himself, much less other important subjects.
Dear Madhava das, you are still not presenting the evidence that you are basing your assumptions on. I heard nothing from the Vedic scriptures from you, but only your so called conclusions. If you are basing what you have heard (or second-heard) from whoever about our Sri Krsna Balaram Swamiji, then you only seem ready to accept hearsay and nothing else. We speak from the Vedic scriptures and from published bonafide books by the Vaishnava Acharyas and we can prove our points based on that evidence.
You speak about public opinion, that something is popular it must be true. Are you now saying that because Srila Prabhupada did not agree with pretty much the entire Gaudiya Math during his time that he was wrong? No, he was alone and he was right. In so many circumstances in Kaliyuga we learn that just because an idea is popular it doesn’t mean it’s correct. So are you now falling for the ‘popularity means to be right’ argument? This is not what we are about. We are about following the correct statements from the Vedic scriptures and the Vaishnava Acharyas and if you cannot base your argument with that, then you have no argument in the Vaishnava world at all.
And what ‘ranks’ of Bhagavat Dharma Samaj do you talk about? What are you talking about or who are you talking about? Please be more clear. Our sincere devotees in Bhagavat Dharma Samaj are well situated spiritually and we have no idea what you are talking about. You are the one who never ever cared to have any association with any of us at any moment and only cared about your own YouTube personal glory and nothing else. That the a fact.
Just so you know, I had previously downloaded every single one of your videos that you ever posted on your YouTube (many of which you have deleted over time and re-uploaded again), and some of them are simply outrageous and speculative beyond imagination. Any person who has been a Vaishnava for sometime in practically speaking any group anywhere in the world that I know of can easily point out some of your speculative interpretations and awkward pride, specially in speaking trying to imitate the voice accent and manner of preaching of our Acharyas.
That might be even tolerable I guess although completely awkward and bizarre, you would be just starting in spiritual life; but to act in public and preach as if you are already an advanced devotee (a wanna be Guru of sorts who knows everything and has no real humility), and even now to the point of offending Sri Krsna Balaram Swami, it is outrageous.
After all of this now you repeatedly say that you want to be left alone and that even Swamiji told you you can go as you wish. However how do explained that your posting of comments TODAY (April 15 2021) on Swamiji’s Srimad Bhagavatam videos criticizing his preaching? It doesn’t look like you want to be left alone, does it? It looks more like you want to create problems only. We have not bothered you, but you seem quite decided to disturb us.
I wasn’t going to say anything to you before because you have been on your own in your so called spiritual life, but today you decided to come to Swamiji’s channel today and leave long challenging and critical comments there, and then delete it afterwards (see attached image), and yet now you can’t even be ready to debate with me the precise philosophical points you have a difference on? Why be such a coward?
Come and let us debate the topic like Vaishnavas interested in the truth of things, not in popularity contests. If you have problems with the philosophy and what Bhagavat Dharma Samaj preaches, I’m ready to defend Swamiji and address each one of your points of contention with you. Please keep in mind that I’m not Swamiji, I’m his follower and will defend him. Swamiji is very merciful and he won’t waste his time with you, but myself I will not tolerate someone like you going to our platforms and be offending our Guru, specially after he was so merciful to you in every way.
You were treated in the most kind way by Swamiji and even when you came to Vrindavan and stayed with us, for you to now come and be acting this way against us. Nobody ever mistreated you, so at least show some human decency.
Apparently you are so ready to speak to the world in your YouTube channel but you have no courage to debate with me in private (or even in public) about important philosophical points based on the Vedic scriptures and the Vaishnava Acharyas. So if you are not actually a coward and an offender, I kindly ask you: Please gather up all your thoughts and present all the philosophical points you have a problem with and I will be more than happy to reply to each one of them.
Jay Sri Radhe!
* * *
On Thursday, April 15, 2021 20:37:14 +0000 Marc-James Redwine <firstname.lastname@example.org> wrote:
I’ve said what I wanted, thank you very much.
I have nothing more to say. Just know I know the truth.
* * *
On Thursday, April 15, 2021 21:16:20 +0000 Krishna Kirtan <email@example.com> wrote:
Dear Madhava das (Marc James),
You may think you know the truth but only a bonafide Scripturally Authorized Guru like His Divine Grace Sri Krsna Balaram Swamiji can make you REALIZE what the ABSOLUTE TRUTH is, a devotee of the Lord who factually knows Krsna in Truth. But you have to want to learn and not think that because you learned a little book knowledge you can now act as if you know everything. “Little knowledge, dangerous” it has been said.
Book knowledge only helps one to revive internal knowledge, the real knowledge that can help someone. The objective is realized knowledge, not just to memorize some book knowledge and try to be a Guru yourself. To act as a Guru like you are trying to do, you would have to be born again many millions of lifetimes after this one. And to achieve realized knowledge in this life one needs to have some humility and sincerity of heart from the start, and continuously.
Lord Krsna speaks Himself in the Padma Purana:
kitesu koti-janmasu manusatvam
tatrapi koti-janmasu brahmanatvam
tatrapi koti-janmasu vaisnavatvam
tatrapi koti-janmasu matparatvam
“After passing millions of births in lower species a soul is given a human birth. After passing millions of human births in the different categories a soul is given a Brahmana’s birth. When the soul passes millions of Brahmana’s births practicing austerities, it becomes a Vaishnava, and when it passes millions of Vaishnava births that pure soul realizes Me in truth and becomes Mine.”
Just see Lord Krsna Himself stating what it takes to become a pure devotee who realized Him in truth. So what to speak of a low-born devotee, if he had eaten meat knowingly and/or drank wine and/or ate onion/garlic, how can he completely know Krsna in truth in this life? Much less can he function as a Guru for anyone, for he does not know Lord Krsna in Truth, which is a requirement as stated by Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu for one to become even a Siksha Guru, what to speak of Diksha Guru.
You don’t even seem to want to try to grasp and understand what a Vrajavasi is to start with, Vrajavasis who all the Vaishnava Acharyas sing the glories of, and you neither seem interested to learn the truth from such an elevated Vrajavasi like our Swamiji, who is the only Vrijavasi initiated disciple of Srila Prabhupada, who is a Scripturally Authentic Spiritual Master (and we can prove it), and who has known nothing else but pure Vaishnava life his entire life. What you may think you know, that is an illusion, created by your own mind and/or due to bad association, and in the end you will only become lost as a mayayapahrta-jnana, knowledge one whose was stolen by illusion as described in Bhagavad Gita.
It would actually be much better if you simply said “I don’t know what to say” instead of replying “I have nothing more to say”. That would have been more honest. You cannot say anything else now because you are simply unable to debate on the topic. So better remain quiet and go back to chanting Hare Krishna only, and simply pray to the Lord and ask Him to give you some humility so you can learn something.
Why become an agent of Kaliyuga Madhava? What is the ultimate benefit in that? Come to Krsna with a sincere heart and all answers can be revealed to you. Only a real Guru and Lord Krsna can relieve you from all forms of anxiety and mental speculation.
Attached is a document you may be interested in reading. It outlines the position of our bonafide Guru Sri Krsna Balaram Swami and elaborates on important points based on the Vedic scriptures and the Vaishnava Acharyas regarding the position of who can become Guru and who cannot. You can start reading ‘The Incontrovertible Verdict of the Vedic Scriptures and the Vaishnava Acharyas on Who Can Become Guru and Who Cannot’ on page 7 (page 14 of PDF).
Thank you. Jay Sri Radhe!
Bhagavat Dharma Samaj
Institute for Pure Devotional Service